The mouth is the gateway to our body, and it tells the truth about how we are aging. Dr. Jessica Lederhausen presents a uniquely Swedish way to take care of your body starting in your mouth called the Lagom MethodTM. Together with Gail Zugerman, she explains how staying healthy is not about doing too much or too little – sometimes, doing just the right amount of tiny good habits every single day is enough. Dr. Jessica also breaks down the four pillars of good health and how paying attention to them can help you grow old with gusto.
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Breaking Down The Lagom MethodTM With Dr. Jessica Lederhausen
How To Grow Older By Improving Your Oral Health
This is a show dedicated to the art of growing older in a positive and productive way. We have as our guest, Dr. Jessica Lederhausen, who is a Swedish trained dentist who has taken her skills to the wellness arena. She’s a wellness coach and the Founder of The Lagom Method, a Swedish philosophy. Her goal is to help individuals and organizations make small lifestyle changes to bridge the gap between oral and overall health.
She was a former TEDx Chicago Founder. Her work has been inspired by the Lagom method of living in balance. She authored the book, Oral: The Swedish Secret to Full-Body Health Starting in Your Mouth. I’ve read it. It’s a great book, and I highly recommend it. We have a lot to learn about the Swedish way of growing older with gusto.
Welcome to the show, Jessica.
Thank you. This is fantastic. What you do is impressive and inspiring.
How Dr. Jessica Pursued A Career As A Dentist
Thank you. I’m curious. I wanted to start out by asking how you got interested in becoming a dentist.
Growing up, I had both parents working in healthcare. My dad’s a doctor. My mom ran and owned an immunization clinic. I used to help out and do whatever I could at a young age. I worked my way up answering the phone. That’s what I knew, and I was always drawn to it. It’s a lot more exciting than that. I also had a lot of orthodontics done. I had my eyes on probably becoming an orthodontist, but I didn’t because of changes in my life.
Addressing The Imbalance Of Your Oral Microbiome
That happens. Everything worked out for the best. Let’s talk a little bit about some of the great stuff that you write about in your book. First, let’s talk about how aging well begins right in the mouth. I’m going to quote one of your quotes from your book to start the discussion. “The mouth is the gateway to our body. It tells the truth about how we’re aging.” What’s the biggest giveaway that you can tell our audience about how our mouth shows us how we’re aging?
First, I would say that mouth health has been put in a corner in the wellness arena. When we talk about health and wellness, we, but I and my peers do, never include mouth health. That’s one thing. If you include it, it would be a bigger difference. The biggest takeaway is it’s all connected. I will talk about more of that as we go. It is a bigger thing. It’s not one big bang.
To go into more detail, you talk in your book about what you call the oral microbiome. What is that exactly?
Maybe people have heard more about the gut microbiome at this point. We have been able to learn so much more about the bacteria we have in our bodies, and that they are not alone. With the oral microbiome, we’ve done a lot of research about that. We know so much more. It’s a mix of bacteria, viruses, and fungi that live together in harmony in different communities around the mouth. It also goes around the body, but let’s focus on the oral microbiome.
To back up, we used to say, “Let’s wipe up all the bacteria.” We didn’t know better. That was what we did then. Now we know that they live in harmony. If you have all the bad and the good bacteria, as long as they are in balance. When they come out of balance, which we call dysbiosis, that’s when things can go bad. You can see disease in the mouth or outside the mouth.
You can have both good and bad bacteria in your body as long as they have a balance.
What causes this imbalance?
That’s my whole book. I’ll do a short version of that. The balance is when there’s something disrupting the harmony. For example, an easy one to relate to is dry mouth. When I’m talking to you for an hour or so, my mouth is going to be drier. You reset quickly by drinking and calming down after we talk. What I go into in the book or what I speak to clients about is how you can boost your oral health. Meaning, how can you keep yourself calm so you don’t get a dry mouth? That’s what you get when you’re nervous or you’re talking too much. The same goes for sleeping with an open mouth. You also need to feed your saliva what it needs, which is minerals that it gives to the teeth to thrive. It’s a lot of going out and going in of the mouth health.
Why You Should Undergo A Saliva Testing
How would somebody reading this episode try to figure out what their markers are of saliva and their oral microbiome? Do they have to go to the dentist? Is there something they can do at home? How does that work?
I love the question because I am getting so much more into saliva testing. It’s my new thing. I have four grown-up kids. I told my kids, “All of you’re going to go and test.” That’s one way, but you can start at home by looking in your mouth in the mirror a little more than you might do. If you look red and angry in the gum, you might have an inflammation, or if you bleed if you flossed and things. Make sure that you take notice. That’s a good start.
Also, if you always feel dry in your mouth when you wake up or in the middle of the night, it could be other reasons, but maybe an easy thing is to test if you close your mouth, for example, by using mouth tape that is out there everywhere to test. Maybe that could help you, but it could be other things, like medication and other things. At least it’s an obvious thing to try to see. The last thing is testing saliva. I work with a company called Bristol. They test and give you feedback so you understand what the test will tell you. That’s what I would recommend to anyone.
Let’s say somebody bought that product and they tested their saliva. What would be an example of feedback they might get?
I can tell you an embarrassing thing. I tested myself for years. It’s my fourth year coming up. The last time I tested, I got a note that they were delayed and something went wrong, and then I got my test, and it was very not good in my favor. Silly me. I thought, “It must have been something that went wrong.” Fast forward a few weeks, and I have a crown that had to be changed out because it was getting older, and there was a cavity under there. The actual test was right.
If I listened to my own mind, I would’ve called my dentist right away and said, “I need to come in. There’s something going on.” That was embarrassing to say, but I share that because it’s a good example. If you have too many of those that you shouldn’t have more of, there should be a fine balance. When you’re off balance, you can see that. It gives a specific bacterium. We get more and more specificity so we can see the specific bacteria and what they’re doing, which is very exciting.
The Correct Way To Brush And Floss Your Teeth
This is going to sound off the wall, but we all know we’re supposed to floss and brush twice daily for two minutes. Is there a difference between an electronic toothbrush and a regular toothbrush, or is it a matter of one will make you brush your teeth longer?
I love the question. My work is around helping people with everything else, but the typical brushing of your teeth. No one knows what could be recommended. The two-minute rule is pretty good. It’s the right amount of time. Not too much or too little, which is what my whole work is around. Twice a day is great. I would also add flossing.
You have to know how to floss so you don’t go down and damage your gums because that’s delicate. That’s how bacteria spread. That’s through the gum and out in the bloodstream. What you do is you brush as if the tooth has a front and a back, but it does have two sides as well. If you clean a table, you don’t throw something at it. You go along the surface. That’s how you have to do it, more than let the thread go down hard and then up hard again.
Are you supposed to do a V or a U thing, like down and then up?
A U, and you move it slowly down and up and push it to the tooth. You don’t push it to the gum. The gum is what holds the teeth together on the surface. They have a lot to do with your health.
How Can A Buddy System Improve Your Health
What are some of the things that stop people that you’ve observed from doing positive daily habits? How can we improve upon that?
The most common thing is that the health goals you have, if you say them out loud or if you have the instinct, it depends on who you are with. If you have a community that does ABC and you want to do XY or whatever, it’s hard to do your thing. If you love your friends, but not how they do their everyday lifestyle, try to find one person you can do your thing with, so you get what you need for your health. You can’t convert or change other people.
It’s like a buddy.
It’s like a buddy system. Find your buddy to walk with. Find somebody you cook with or make whatever choices, so it becomes fun. It could even be a new friend.
A dental friend.
There’s research around this that I don’t need to get into, but it’s proven that you are what those people around you are. If you want to change, you have to be specific and clear.
Unlocking Huge Change Through Tiny Habits
You speak about balance over burnout. I’m going to quote you again. “Aging well isn’t about doing more. It’s about finding out what’s right.” Let’s talk about that a little bit.
I’m not saying I have the solution for aging well, but I use the philosophy around the word lagom. In Swedish, that means not too much or too little. It’s a good baseline to think about. As we get older, we cannot always do what we used to do. Some people can, I’m sure. Let’s say I used to run 5 miles when I was in my 20s and 30s, and that was great. Now, I would run much less and with a different attitude. I’m looking at the trees and being happy that I’m moving.
We need to tweak what we do. We also have to be aware of the risk-reward because if we do get injured, typically, it takes longer to heal when you’re older. You will miss out on whatever it is you want to do. You shouldn’t just give up and not do anything, but I’m saying do it with intention and be aware of what you’re doing, so you can do it. Keep doing it if you like something. I also want to say there’s a great TED Talk by Jane Fonda about the third act. You can find it on YouTube. Have you seen it?
I didn’t see it. I read about it, and I have not had a chance to.
I watched it several times for different groups I’ve worked with. It’s good. That’s what I think of. She calls it the third act. Having a view on getting older could be different. She talked about that. If you want to change things up, it’s good to start small. I’m trained with Tiny Habits. That’s BJ Fogg’s coaching system. He’s from Stanford. It’s the one that I feel aligned with the most.
I don’t believe that you can change in ten days. That’s not what I think change means. The system talks about tiny habits where you make something you do something that you want to do, and you have to be honest. You do it so small that even on a rainy day, it’s going to happen, and then you anchor it to something you always do without even thinking about it.
I talked about flossing. Maybe people who read about it will think, “Maybe I should start flossing. That’s a good idea.” Put your floss next to your toothbrush. You probably brush your teeth morning and evening. You will remember doing it. Start small. Do a few teeth in the front, which are easier to access. Start there, and then it’s going to be something you do. Do it because you want to do it. It’s not a big deal.
For my husband, in order to get him to work out, they had him read books on tape through earphones while he worked out. He’ll want to work out because he’s going to be able to listen to a book at the same time.
I love that. He looks forward to the next chapter of the book. That’s a great example. I’m going to use that. Thank you. That’s good.
Understanding The Swedish Philosophy Of Lagom
You touched a little bit about the lagom way. Tell us more about the philosophy. It sounds interesting.
It’s built into Swedish culture. It’s about not doing too much or too little.
Did you grow up with this? Is that how you learned about it?
No. It’s a word we throw out. On a personal level, if I call my mom tomorrow and ask, “How is the weather?” She might say, “It’s lagom warm.” What does that mean? Nothing. I understand she thinks it’s warm enough. It could be that the food was lagom sold. It’s a silly thing. It means not too much or too little, but right for you. I use that in my coaching because I emphasize the personalization of coaching. You can’t just say, “Everybody should do the same thing,” whatever it is. It doesn’t work.
For Swedes and Northern Europeans, for example, there is a lot of biking. Americans who travel there see that. That’s a way of lagom exercise. You move your body in your everyday life. It doesn’t always have to be a full-blown workout in a gym, but you get from A to B. You may do a twenty-minute walk to work or whatever it is. That’s a lagom way of getting it in there. We do a lot of things like that. It’s lagom in Sweden.
Get To Know Yourself Better As You Age
How can a person by themselves figure out their own individual way of balance and recharging in life?
That’s the million-dollar question. Live a good life. To think about that, hopefully, you get to know yourself more with age, which is the charm of getting older. Accept your flaws and what you thrive at doing. Curiosity goes a long way when you get older.
Get to know yourself more with age. This is the charm of getting older.
I always say stay curious and stay connected.
Connection with other people. That’s the body system we both had in mind. It’s not too complicated, but you have to throw yourself out there a little bit.
Being Healthy Through Micro Moments Done With Intention
The next topic is redefining gusto and getting older. Here’s another quote. “Healthy gauge comes from micro moments done with intention.”
What I take from this is funny. My mom is a very alert and up-and-running 82-year-old. She says that her friends are walking slowly, a lot of them. I asked, “How did they become slow walkers?” She’s so funny in the way she said it. She was like, “They’ve always been slow walkers.” You have to build up and move towards something.
Maybe they always want to be slow walkers. You cannot think you’re going to age in a different way than you put yourself up for success to be. We don’t know what’s going to happen with us. It’s a big statement. You build your own where you are going with your whole you, with your intention. Take small steps along the way, and it’s going to build. You change path, redirect, and off-road, but it all adds up somewhere. You have to think about it.
We all climb the mountain a little bit differently.
That’s the amazing thing.
We all have our own little ways of getting there.
You have to think a little bit about where you’re going. It might be things that happen that crash all the ideas. I’m not talking about how many vacation trips you’re going to do. I mean deeper things, like how you want to be in this world and give back when you’re older. Do you want to do that? Do you want to do your own thing? Whatever you want to do.
Somebody once said the first third of your life is learning, the second third is earning, and the third is returning.
I love that. That’s perfect. What you put in is what comes out at the end.
Focusing On The Four Pillars Of Good Health
What are some examples in your experience and opinion of habits that will help people stay the course as they grow older with gusto and help them to grow older with a lot of energy?
I love that. That’s a good question for what I work with. The four pillars I dive deep into for my writing are habits around sleep, breathing, eating, and moving. All those affect your everyday lifestyle, or not. If you feel okay and you’re wondering, “Could I feel even better?” or if you don’t feel great and want to feel better, check in on those four. Look at yourself in the mirror. Meaning, be honest and see if there’s something you know could change.
For breathing, are you breathing up in your chest, which is making things stressful? Are you breathing lower and slower every day? That’s very easy because it’s always there. You breathe 22,000 times a day. You have a lot of opportunities to practice. That’s hard. You have to think about it. For sleep, check in if you’re optimizing the hours that you’re sleeping, which is a little personalized. I didn’t think it was, but I learned through researching that it seems like it is. If you’re hanging out too late at night, or you get up too early in the morning or too late, you can change that with intention.
Eating is the same thing. What is feeding you and nourishing you in the best way? I know it’s great to drink or eat whatever, but do you feel good afterwards? Be open to some small changes. One of my girl friends is a few years older than me, so it has been great. Every ten years, she reminds me, “Now, things have to change.” We’ve known each other for 40 years.
I like that idea. You have to do a little evaluation of your situation here and there without being super critical. You could say, “I need to sharpen this,” or, “I’ve got too many colds this year. Maybe I need to change up my sleep too little,” or, “I’m a mouth breather.” The nose gives you some protection from infections, inflammations, and bacteria. Moving could be different things. It could be a super exercise. It could be getting up from the chair. When we’re done talking, I’m sure I’m going to jump out of the chair and move around a little bit. That’s how I am. Maybe I need to do less of it. It’s not always about going to the gym. I keep saying that.
I like hearing that because that can get old soon. After a while, it wears thin. I wanted to touch on sleep again because I know that’s a big one. A lot of people have trouble with that. I gauge my sleep patterns on my Apple watch. They give you a scale, like whether you had a good night’s sleep or fair core, whatever. They are able to measure your core sleep patterns, your REM or Rapid Eye Movement, and how long you were awake. It’s difficult for me personally to get more deep sleep than the rest of the other components. I was wondering if you had any thoughts on that.
I have, but I don’t exactly remember. I’m the connector of all this, but I’m not a specialist. What you can look up is that when you sleep, there are certain hours when you will have your perfect sleep. If you fall asleep at 10:00 and wake up at 6:00, that might be your perfect. They show on the sleep apps a peak in the middle, and it should be in the middle. When the peak happens in the wrong hours, you get less of the deep and the REM sleep. I don’t remember which and how, but there’s something there. Look that up as a potential solution for that. It’s not the amount of sleep. It’s when you sleep.
Deep sleep is achieved not so much by the amount of sleep but by the time you go to bed.
I find it interesting.
I know. I didn’t know that at all before I did all this reading about sleep.
How To Live With Purpose In An Oral Way
How can people live with purpose in an oral way?
That’s hard. It’s always about connecting with people. If it’s small or big, it doesn’t matter. It could be growing things and having things that you are connected with throughout your elderly years, whether it’s people, organizations, growing, or the arts. There’s always something you can connect with where you feel something. For the oral, I can’t find any good purpose, but that’s a fun question.
Dr. Jessica’s Book And Online Coaching Program
I know this book was great, but you also do this online coaching for wellness. Tell our audience about your online coaching program.
Thank you. I love to meet people as I was in clinic healthcare field earlier. I’m not now. My outlet has become speaking to people, trying to help and guide them to find the best them going forward. I have different options. There is a one-on-one. Smaller groups have been great, too. My foundation coaching is going through live questions with an eye on my four pillars.
I also train everyone in the Tiny Habits method. Meaning, the methodology of putting new habits in place. If you want to start flossing, this is a good way to think about it. When we talk about things for each person, it could be whatever it is. Let’s say it’s like, “I want to get outdoors more.” I say, “You can walk to your coffee in the afternoon and meet some friends.” I combine it with other needs you have that we talked about to make things happen in an easy, natural way. I enjoy that very much. You can always email me or sign up on my website for those.
If somebody wants to purchase your book, Oral, where’s the best place? Amazon?
I have signed copies on my website that I ship. That’s a hard copy. Amazon only has paperbacks, but that’s fine, too. Some random stores have it too. It’s a little bit here and there.
How should people contact you for your online coaching?
It’s my website. It is TheLagomMethod.com.
Create New Goals As You Get Older
What are some of the most important takeaways for people from this conversation, would you say? What would you want them to take away?
Aging is interesting. The best way to go forward is to have some new goals and new things that you want to do and change. It’s something you want to do. Look at the four pillars that I work with. Sleep, breathe, eat, and move could help you be your best you. Sleep is also what people mostly talk to me about as a problem. That trickles down to what you eat, how much you move, and how you breathe. It’s all connected, so it’s more like a framework I have. If you can get your sleep better, that’s a big deal for most people.
How Doctors And Dentists Can Work Better Together
I appreciate this. I was at my GI doctor’s to chat with him. He gave me a short physical exam. He said, “Open your mouth,” and raised my tongue. I thought that was great. I thought you’d appreciate that.
That’s a good start. It’s happening. I’ve done other things besides dentistry in Sweden. In my move to America, I’ve had a small business for years, the coaching, and the TEDx Chicago. I feel I’ve always been a little ahead of the curve, but it’s happening. The doctors are listening more to this. The dentist and doctors need to partner. There are too many misunderstandings. That made me write the book, too.
A friend of mine told me about her dad, who was 75 at the time. He was so fresh, climbing the trees at home and doing everything. He was so sick, and no one could find what it was. It took months. They thought that the worst of the worst would happen, and then they realized it was an inflammation in a tooth. We need to talk more so we get the right diagnosis and not three months of terrible times waiting for the worst news to come. It’s happening slowly, which is good for people.
Thank you very much. This has been great. If you enjoyed this episode, and how could you not, please leave us a review on Apple or iHeart. Remember to stay curious and stay connected.
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