Host Gail Zugerman welcomes return guest Sky Bergman, an award winning film Documentarian, to discuss her latest project about finding humor as we grow older. Bergman shares the backstory behind “The Jollytologist”, a documentary centered on Allen Klein and the healing power of laughter. She explains how simple attitude shifts and everyday curiosity pull anyone out of a rut. Bergman also talks about her path from Professor Emeritus of Photography and Video at Cal Poly, San Luis Obispo to full-time filmmaker. Listeners gain tactical insights on staying connected, pursuing new passions, and finding joy in life’s smallest moments. She also previews her other recent projects, including “Lives Well Lived” and “Mochi”.

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The Power Of Laughter For Positive Aging With Sky Bergman

Welcome to the show. A show dedicated to highlighting people who are growing older in a positive and productive way. We have a return guest, Sky Bergman. Sky Bergman is a professor emeritus of photography and video at Cal Poly San Luis Obispo in California. She has started her third chapter and just keeps going. It is amazing by creating films and projects that inspire intergenerational connections and emphasize the power of sharing stories.

She was first on when she came out with her successful PBS documentary, Lives Well-Lived, which was followed up by a book called Lives Well Lived — GENERATIONS: Resilience, Positivity, and Purpose at Every Age. That book distilled the wisdom from her film. Both were excellent. Her most recent film project is powered by joy, and it is called The Jollytologist. She is going to talk a lot about that, and we cannot wait to hear about it. Welcome back to the show, Sky.

Thanks so much for having me. I love being here.

Thank you. Tell my audience how you initially got started with what you’re doing and all the good work and just how it all came about. I know you have a really interesting backstory.

Finding Positive Role Models Of Aging

First of all, thank you again for having me on the show. I just love it. I got started because I was looking at approaching 50. I was in my mid-40s and looking for positive role models of aging and not seeing them out in the media. I am 60. That was about fifteen years ago. There is more now, but there certainly was not fifteen years ago. I had this amazing role model of my grandmother who, at 100, was still working out at the gym. She did not start until she was 80 years old. It is never too late to start something new, even working out at the gym.

 

 

That led me down the path of interviewing 40 people with a collective life experience of 3,000 years for my film, Lives Well Lived. It was my first film. I had never done anything like that before, but I was just driven by this sense of curiosity. I think a very personal story of my own was wanting to have positive role models of aging in my life. That put me on this trajectory now of being a filmmaker. I retired from teaching after an over 30-year career at Cal Poly, and I am making films full-time and loving it, which is wonderful.

It sounds like your teaching career was like a natural segue into what you’re doing. Many people retire, and then they are stuck for a while. They do not know, “Where do I go from here? What do I do next?” For you, that path seemed to be pretty clear-cut, which is really nice. Let us talk a little bit about your most recent project with The Jolletologist. First of all, what does that name really mean? It is a great name, very catchy.

Understanding The Concept Of Gelotology

The film is about a man named Allen Klein who calls himself the Jollytologist, and he registered it and he trademarked it. He used to tell people that he was a gelotologist because that is the study of science and laughter. People thought he made the Jell-O, the wiggly desserts, rather than anything about happy. He changed it to Jollytologist, which I actually think is lovely. It is his story, but it is also about getting through difficult and challenging times with laughter and humor.

Boy, we all need that right now. I think we always need that, but maybe now more so than ever. He has written dozens of books and done a TEDx talk, and he is just a delight. It has been such a wonderful project to work on. I have to take on projects that I love because I eat, live, and breathe whatever I am taking on. It is in my whole being when I am working on a project. This has definitely been a fun one to work on.

I really enjoyed watching it. He was a delight. How did you meet Allen?

One thing leads to the next. This is the serendipity of my life. I also think that I seize upon some of these opportunities. The person who did my audio descriptions for Lives Well-Lived, and if you do not know what audio descriptions are, they are descriptions that people who are blind can watch a film, and they hear what is going on. Somebody is describing what is going on. This woman, Michele Spitz, who has a company called Woman of Her Word, sponsored doing the audio descriptions for Lives Well-Lived. She knew me through that.

She was friends with Allen Klein, and Allen was having a birthday party, and Michelle said to him, “You really should have a film made about you. You’re so amazing. You’ve done so, you’ve touched so many lives. I know the perfect filmmaker that you should work with.” There you have it. The rest is history. Sometimes, it takes following up on these things and making them happen. I am so glad that I did, because it has been so wonderful to work with Allen.

Let your decisions be guided by curiosity rather than fear as you navigate your second chapter.

He has such a compelling story to tell. I was curious, first, could you tell our audience a little bit about his story? I would like to know how you get him to open up? He talked about some pretty personal things.

First of all, his story is that he originally was a set designer in New York. He worked on shows like The Merv Griffin Show and Captain Kangaroo. He met his wife, who lived in San Francisco and he was in New York, and he ended up moving out to San Francisco, and he started a silk screening business. He and his wife had a daughter, Sarah. Unfortunately at a very young age, his wife, Ellen, was diagnosed with a rare liver condition and it was three years where she was not doing well and passed away at the end of three years. He was left very young with a young daughter.

It was a very challenging time, but one of the things that really helped him and Ellen get through some of the more challenging moments was laughter and humor. He went back to school for his master’s degree, and his thesis was The Healing Power of Humor, which became his first book. He just went on from there to keep writing books and giving back in many ways and doing lots of speaking engagements around this idea of laughter and humor. When we’re young, we laugh a lot. All of a sudden, as we get older, we suppress that. It is so important, I think, to remember laughter and humor, especially in challenging times, and how that can lift us up. Changing our attitude about how we’re dealing with things in that moment can really make a huge difference in all aspects of our life.

I wonder, was Allen’s sense of humor innate or was it something he developed? Was he a class clown when he was younger?

No, I think he was very shy and very quiet. I mean, he talks about that. He was not into sports. He liked to draw. He was much more introverted. This is something that he has learned to develop. I think that in doing all of his speaking engagements, he has certainly learned to be vivacious and funny and really attract a lot of people and help a lot of people.

How did you get him to really open up?

 

Building Trust In Authentic Storytelling

That was the second part of the question. What I did with Lives Well Lived, I think people know my story. They know why I am making films, which is really out of passion and because I believe in people’s stories. When you’re authentic, people are authentic back to you. Really being my authentic self, showing up, also leaving the space for people to tell their stories, because you’re an interviewer. A lot of times when you’re having a conversation with somebody, you’re already thinking about the answer to what they’re saying instead of just listening.

I spend a lot of time really, truly listening to people and allowing for the space for their stories to unfold. That is how you get those deeper stories is really allowing for that time and for people to trust you. It takes time to develop trust. You do not go in and interview somebody right away. At least I do not. I developed some time having some conversations beforehand, meeting with a person and developing a rapport so that when I do show up with cameras, we’re friends. You’re having a conversation with a friend rather than a stranger. That makes all the difference in the world is that trust and that authenticity.

What is Allen up to today?

He is still doing speaking gigs, and now he is on the film festival circuit with me. It is really great. We had a great screening at the Nevada City Film Festival, and we’re going to the Gig Harbor Film Festival. It is really wonderful for him because I think when Michele approached him about doing a film about him and his work, he was like, “Why would anyone care what I am doing?” Now, when he sits with an audience, I think he is really amazed at how people are moved by his story. I love that. He is 88 years old, and he is just a wonderful human being. To have that come back to you, because he has helped so many people, to have some of that positivity come back to you at this point, I think it is just a wonderful gift for him.

How can people who are experiencing a challenging situation, whether it is losing a spouse or a dog or anybody, or just being in a rut, let us say. Where would they go to find this joy and this jolliness, so to speak? How do you find jolly?

Practicing Small Daily Shifts For Joy

I learned this when I was working on the Lives Well Lived film, because I think that one of the things that I learned that was a key factor in people living a positive life was an attitude adjustment, I like to say, and having that positive attitude. How do you get that? Not so easy when you’re in a rut and when you’re down. One of the things that Allen talks about is that it does not have to be the big things. It can be the small things. Every day he goes for a walk with his dog, and he looks for faces in odd places, like happy smiling faces. Even trying to do some of those little things that can pull you out of your depression, I think, is great. I have found that now, because of Allen, I am constantly looking for faces in odd places.

 

 

I do that on my walk with my dog.

Try looking for faces in odd places. It is fun. Even like the sewer grate, or you would be surprised. I think it just lightens your mood a little bit. I also think that another thing that he talks about is that he plays a game with himself by trying to say hello to as many people as he can while he is walking. Many people are buried in their phones, but I think you make that human connection with somebody, and that also lifts you out of whatever you happen to be in that moment.

Making more of those connections and trying to find the joy in the little moments, it does not necessarily have to be these big things. Sometimes, especially when we’re in a rut, or we’re in a dark place, we think that joy has to be this big thing. Really, it can be the smallest of things. I remember when my dad had a stroke, and he was in the hospital, and he was pretty depressed.

Shifting Mindset Through Daily Gratitude

Rightfully so, because his right side was somewhat paralyzed. I said to him, “Dad, I want every time that somebody comes into your room, I want you to say something positive to them. Whether it is, ‘You have a nice blouse on,’ or ‘You have a beautiful smile,’ say something positive and believe it is going to lighten them up, and it will lighten you up at the same time.”

It was an effort, but I came back to visit him next, because I live in California. He was in Philadelphia at the time. I came back the next weekend, and his mood had totally changed because he did that art of practicing, just being grateful for the little things and saying something positive to somebody else. It is amazing how that mind shift can really change you and pull you up out of a really lift you up out of that really difficult situation.

I just learned about something that is interesting. I have been trying to do this. It is called the 3/2/1 method. Every day you’re supposed to think of three things at night that you really enjoyed during the day, two things you’re looking forward to tomorrow, and one thing you learned during the day.

Saying something positive to someone else instantly brightens your own outlook and mood.

I like that a lot. That is good. I think that is good because I think sometimes things get overwhelming and we just feel like, “We cannot do whatever.” When you can break it down like that, I think it really helps to remind us that we have something to laugh at. We have something to look forward to, and we have something we learned every day. That is good. I might have to take that method as well. I like that. Thank you.

You’re welcome. What is next for you, do you think? I know you’re busy on the film circuit, going to the festival.

I have two other films that are out right now. The Jollytologist will be on PBS in the spring of 2027. I have two other films. One is called The Mochi Movie.

What is that about?

I am actually screening that this coming in like two weeks down in Santa Barbara. That one is about the Japanese American experience as told through mochi. It features George Takei, who, if any of you are my age, you will know was on the original Star Trek. I was just like a little bit of a fan crush when I went to interview him, but super nice guy. He talks about his best childhood memory was making mochi in the internment camps because the whole community came together to do that. Even in the most difficult of times, food can get us through some of those moments.

Connecting Through Music Across Generations

You’re talking about, “What can you do?” Sometimes food is one of those things that helps things move through. That’s The Mochi Movie. The other movie that I absolutely love that I have been working on is near and dear to my heart because it is called The Primetime Band. When I was in high school, I played flute, clarinet, and bassoon. As many of these people in the band, it is a community band made up of about 70 people who are primarily in their 60s, 70s, 80s, and even 90s, who many of them put their instruments aside for 30, 40 years and then come back to them later in life and play in this big community band that then performs throughout Santa Barbara County.

When you show up as your authentic self and listen deeply, people open up and share their real stories.

They also go into elementary schools as part of a group called the Music Van and introduce instruments to third graders, which I love. You talked about my description being intergenerational connections. There is one right there that I just love. These older adults going back into elementary schools to show these instruments to these young kids, many of whom never would pick up an instrument otherwise. It is that paying it forward and that connection through music that I just love. That’s what I am up to these days.

That is a lot. That is great. Is there anything else you want to talk about? I’m out of questions, but I know you always have a lot to say. That’s something I might not have thought of.

Choosing Curiosity Over Fear Every Day

I am so delighted to be here, and I love working on these film projects. One thing that I would say to everyone who is tuning in is I never thought I was going to be a filmmaker. That was never on my agenda. Follow your passion, follow the threads that lead you to these really interesting things. I mean, becoming, because I followed that thread of wanting to interview my grandmother and then it led to all these other people, and then it led to this film. You never know how these things snowball.

It was really from following my passion and my curiosity. I have a little Post-it note over my desk that says, “Your decisions should be based on your curiosity over fear.” That is something that really fuels me. If I have something that is gnawing at me that I feel like I am curious about and I need to know more, then I follow that, and I go down that path. It has led me to some amazing friendships and amazing projects and a really interesting life.

Staying curious and staying connected are the two most important things you can do for yourself as you’re getting older. I agree.

 

 

Absolutely. That is where it is fine.

They are intertwined.

Now I only host it in the summertime, but I used to host a women’s dinner the first Monday of every month so that I could, because I was so busy, I just did not have time to see all my friends. I also wanted to make new friends. I would tell my friends, “Invite other friends.” My email list has grown to 150 people. Now about half of them show up, that’s talking about staying connected. There are so many things that we can do to create connection, even if we do not have it in our lives, just throwing a potluck dinner where there is no expectation.

The expectation is that you’re going to bring something for 8 to 10 people and have a great conversation with the people around you. I had people from literally 17 to 90 last night that were at this lovely dinner. It was great conversation and great connections. You’re absolutely right. That connection, sense of purpose, all of those things are especially important at any age, but especially as we’re getting older.

That is great. Where can our audience go to see The Jollytologist film, to see The Mochi film? All of the talking about the ice cream, right?

No, this is Mochi. I should have described what mochi is. Mochi is rice that is steamed and then pounded until it is like the consistency of bread dough. It is made into little balls. That is actually mochi. Mochi ice cream was something that was like an Americanized version of mochi that you see in Costco and Trader Joe’s. What you’ll notice is that when you eat mochi ice cream, it is very chewy because mochi itself is very chewy. It is a form of that. As I said, that’s the Americanized version, but you can find information about all of my work, my book, my films at my website, which is SkyBergmanProductions.com. There are links to everything. If you want to delve deeper into any one of those films, there are links to see that, but that’s the landing page for everything at this point.

It’s never too late to start something new, even at 80 years old. Find positive role models as you age.

That is great. I am out of questions, as I say, or get something else to say. It has been a delight to see you again. We will keep having you on. The more you do, the more I want you to come back.

I will come back when the next films are launched and maybe in the spring when we’re launching on PBS.

That would be great. To everyone, thank you. Please share this episode with your friends and family and remember to stay curious and connected. Thanks, Sky.

Thank you.

 

Important Links

• Sky Bergman
• Lives Well-Lived
• Lives Well Lived — GENERATIONS: Resilience, Positivity, and Purpose at Every Age
• The Jollytologist
• Woman of Her Word
• The Mochi Movie